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[WIP] ^1the gunz mechanic codex [THIS MAKES ME LOOK LIKE A HUGE FUCKING LOSER]

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Post by Jianyu Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:31 am

WIP will format it later

my gunz magnum opus.........

Lower FPS = quicker animations, Higher FPS = longer animations.

Lower FPS = Less gravity, Higher FPS = more gravity

Animation's work in a parallel fashion to a set "timed" animation, that's to say, the actual animation is locked into at LEAST a certain length by an unknown entity:

At lower FPSes you can see artifacts of this by slashing a wall, you will have a momentary freeze afterwards. This is the underlying timer. Animation freezes are achieved by having multiple of of the SAME "quicker" animations in a row, so that you obtain that "freeze-frame" at the end of every animation you do, with no interruptions in between. For some reason when these freeze-frames translate to another client, it produces a static image of the final frame in the animation for the ENTIRETY of the next super-fast animation, but not for the player's client. When animations are close to their timers, they come out smoother and are easier to control.

Recoils are based on FPS as well. The way recoils work, is when the slash animation hits a block it's on a timer that's related to the slash animation "timer", if a percentage of the animation's "timer" hits the block animation, you will recoil. Angling defeats recoils because of this. You're throwing the extra slash animation "timer's" "frames" off into the wild. Thus...

If you have 17 FPS, and the "timer" requires 50% of frames, only 9 frames must hit this timer. This doesn't seem bad, but when you're at 17 fps your frames are so clunky that you are only able to move in about 65% of them.

If, on the other hand, you have 500 FPS, you need 250 frames to hit the block. With a smooth angle, this is very easy to avoid.


This was proven by people like Tandy, who used ~3,000 FPS and was nearly unrecoilable with just slight angles. Extensive tests were done using Tandy in controlled environments to prove this.


So, why is 250 FPS the optimal FPS? That is because you are getting...

1. Enough gravity to do things
2. 250 FPS is about the point where animations + their "timers" are equal, thus are less clunky.


Regarding




The way this works, I think is related to God Theory...




that is to say, when an animation starts at the ending frame of another animation (only certain ones) they cancel each other out. Like the massive in my video cancelling the landing AND the massive itself, in this case, the slash is cancelling the landing animation.

While you're in a flip, you're in the air. The game is saying "I am in the air", for lack of a better term. When you hit the ground and cancel it with a slash (the flip-landing animation is different than the jump-landing) you cancel both the first slash, and the landing. So, the game still thinks you're in the air (because you didn't land,) but reads you're on the ground (because you are at the ground-level where the land should be.) You are in a superposition between ground and air (but still considered in air,) and both safefall (the backflip/void massive charge) and do the first slash animation. Getting flipped keeps you in the same lock, landing on the ground cancels and gives you another landing animation.

I believe slashing keeps you in the air because the game thinks you're on the ground because you're using the ground-slashing animation, in the game when you do a ground-slashing animation you get less gravity (you can do this yourself by slashing off a ledge, you won't drop right away) thus you're doing the animation, and getting no gravity. Slashes in a frozen "falling" position, because of the length of how long you're in the air (happens if you're flipped off a long ledge) makes you slashes spammable.

GUNZ !! !!! !

creditz: Me, Naravus.
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Post by BoozeAddict Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:05 am

tl;dr

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Post by GokuLowClass Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:15 am

i cud do tat shit before i was born. shut up make good thread about how bad the rest is or how god u are at trollin

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Post by Shlayg Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:18 am

very educational thread thank u for helping me :-)
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Post by Jianyu Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:44 am

ok cehck out these funny rage comics!!

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xd
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Post by GokuLowClass Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:13 am

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Post by Kingofswords Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:20 pm

I dont even know how they move around. Every time im at that pokemon twitch nothing goes on except standing in the same 30 pixels for 2 hours. And when I go offline for a couple of hours they suddenly got gym badge, are at new area and got new pokemons !!!!! Sad

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Post by Kae Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:08 am

rock is real music and justin bieber is a fag
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Post by [D]ark[YIN] Sat Feb 22, 2014 2:51 am

Jianyu wrote:WIP will format it later

my gunz magnum opus.........

Lower FPS = quicker animations, Higher FPS = longer animations.

Lower FPS = Less gravity, Higher FPS = more gravity

Animation's work in a parallel fashion to a set "timed" animation, that's to say, the actual animation is locked into at LEAST a certain length by an unknown entity:

At lower FPSes you can see artifacts of this by slashing a wall, you will have a momentary freeze afterwards. This is the underlying timer. Animation freezes are achieved by having multiple of of the SAME "quicker" animations in a row, so that you obtain that "freeze-frame" at the end of every animation you do, with no interruptions in between. For some reason when these freeze-frames translate to another client, it produces a static image of the final frame in the animation for the ENTIRETY of the next super-fast animation, but not for the player's client. When animations are close to their timers, they come out smoother and are easier to control.

Recoils are based on FPS as well. The way recoils work, is when the slash animation hits a block it's on a timer that's related to the slash animation "timer", if a percentage of the animation's "timer" hits the block animation, you will recoil. Angling defeats recoils because of this. You're throwing the extra slash animation "timer's" "frames" off into the wild. Thus...

If you have 17 FPS, and the "timer" requires 50% of frames, only 9 frames must hit this timer. This doesn't seem bad, but when you're at 17 fps your frames are so clunky that you are only able to move in about 65% of them.

If, on the other hand, you have 500 FPS, you need 250 frames to hit the block. With a smooth angle, this is very easy to avoid.


This was proven by people like Tandy, who used ~3,000 FPS and was nearly unrecoilable with just slight angles. Extensive tests were done using Tandy in controlled environments to prove this.


So, why is 250 FPS the optimal FPS? That is because you are getting...

1. Enough gravity to do things
2. 250 FPS is about the point where animations + their "timers" are equal, thus are less clunky.


Regarding




The way this works, I think is related to God Theory...




that is to say, when an animation starts at the ending frame of another animation (only certain ones) they cancel each other out. Like the massive in my video cancelling the landing AND the massive itself, in this case, the slash is cancelling the landing animation.

While you're in a flip, you're in the air. The game is saying "I am in the air", for lack of a better term. When you hit the ground and cancel it with a slash (the flip-landing animation is different than the jump-landing) you cancel both the first slash, and the landing. So, the game still thinks you're in the air (because you didn't land,) but reads you're on the ground (because you are at the ground-level where the land should be.) You are in a superposition between ground and air (but still considered in air,) and both safefall (the backflip/void massive charge) and do the first slash animation. Getting flipped keeps you in the same lock, landing on the ground cancels and gives you another landing animation.

I believe slashing keeps you in the air because the game thinks you're on the ground because you're using the ground-slashing animation, in the game when you do a ground-slashing animation you get less gravity (you can do this yourself by slashing off a ledge, you won't drop right away) thus you're doing the animation, and getting no gravity. Slashes in a frozen "falling" position, because of the length of how long you're in the air (happens if you're flipped off a long ledge) makes you slashes spammable.

GUNZ !! !!! !

creditz: Me, Naravus.

Too much philosophy. Go on ragezone and find the source code. Also, do some coursera courses on programming and you'll get better results than toying with Fraps.
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Post by Joel Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:20 am

mark teach me sf4 pls
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Post by FightMan Sat Feb 22, 2014 5:40 am

i can teach u if u add my steam [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

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Post by Shlayg Sat Feb 22, 2014 5:47 am

1v1 me fightman whoever wins teaches him
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Post by Hanoobs Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:00 am

FightMan wrote:i can teach u if u add my steam [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Shlayg wrote:1v1 me fightman whoever wins teaches him

My client reserves the right to use teemo as an adc. In the event of a twitch barrier ignite use from the opposition.
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Post by Jianyu Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:53 am

well teemo isn't bad in the bot-lane, a few south-east asian players like Chawy have used him...

let's see how..

dorans shield + 1 pot ->

haunting guise->mpen boots->twin shadows->liandrys->z-ring->liches bane->void (void can be built b4 or right after z-ring, and liches bane can be built b4 z-ring)


u r probably ask, that is look the so weird !!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????


::::PROTIP ALERT::::


Did you know Liandry's passive procs DOUBLE if the target is immobilized? Twin Shadows has a slow built into the active!!!!!!!


WOW!!! COOL!!!



[D]ark[YIN] wrote:
Too much philosophy. Go on ragezone and find the source code. Also, do some coursera courses on programming and you'll get better results than toying with Fraps.

Naravus did look at gunz sources, i.e. blocks were found to work that way. the only "philosophical" (quotes because they're all confirmed) thing is god-theory, jet-theory and "vengence", because like k-style they're bugs and can only be tested in a live environment. fraps is just used like a classroom experiment, where you can see these things for yourself because the game is largely based on animations with no "timed" animation lock (to keep the animations at a certain number of frames,) so fps plays a big part.

learning is fun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



check out this funny rage comic xddd

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

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Post by WRUM! Sat Feb 22, 2014 10:13 pm

I think the animation locks (vblock, void slash, etc) are due to GunZ replaying the last frame of the animation, if the same animation is played over and over again [1][2]. This happens with animations like jumping, falling, and a falling massive naturally [3].

The way this factors into vblock is that block has different animations for its raising and holding. When you press the block button, the raising animation is first played, and afterwards, the block hold animation starts looping until the block timer runs out and you return to the normal idle upper [4] animation. Here's the catch though, the animation id for the upper body idle animation is only set after the sword has fully returned to your side. What this means is that the very last frame of the block raising animation pretty much looks like the beginning of the upper body idle animation.

By spamming the block raising animation and not staying in the idle animation for more than a few frames, the PostBasicInfo cycle can't send the idle animation to other clients, [5] because the timer for sending this information is a lot longer than your stay in the idle animation.

What all of this results in is that all other players only receive the block raising upper animation, which in turn, just makes their client play the last frame of it, which just happens to look like the beginning of the idle animation.

I could be wrong though. It's been some time since I've last messed with the client.


Notes:
[1] By which I mean to say that the animation id remains unchanged after the animation has reached the last frame.

[2] Unless the animations are marked as looped (running, block hold, and idle animations). Then all bets are off.

[3] You can achieve the same effect with slashing, wallclimbing, dashing, etc. if you run an animation switcher to lock yourself into a certain animation like me and ent did on RGunZ.

[4] For anybody that didn't know already, animations are divided between upper and lower body. This is what makes it possible to have a lower body running animation with a reloading/grenade throwing animation at the same time.

[5] PostBasicInfo sends information to other players in the game about your position, rotation, current animation, current weapon (and some other uninteresting stuff I've forgotten about). It sends this information on a set timer, or when you've traveled a certain distance from your last position. Messing with this function is how ABBY bot's invisibility and spinning worked.
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Post by TugaLord Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:37 am

i dont care about this game anymore
o . o
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Post by WRUM! Sun Feb 23, 2014 1:16 am

TugaLord wrote:i dont care about this game anymore
o . o
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Post by [D]ark[YIN] Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:24 am

Jianyu wrote:well teemo isn't bad in the bot-lane, a few south-east asian players like Chawy have used him...

let's see how..

dorans shield + 1 pot ->

haunting guise->mpen boots->twin shadows->liandrys->z-ring->liches bane->void (void can be built b4 or right after z-ring, and liches bane can be built b4 z-ring)


u r probably ask, that is look the so weird !!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????


::::PROTIP ALERT::::


Did you know Liandry's passive procs DOUBLE if the target is immobilized? Twin Shadows has a slow built into the active!!!!!!!


WOW!!! COOL!!!



[D]ark[YIN] wrote:
Too much philosophy. Go on ragezone and find the source code. Also, do some coursera courses on programming and you'll get better results than toying with Fraps.

Naravus did look at gunz sources, i.e. blocks were found to work that way. the only "philosophical" (quotes because they're all confirmed) thing is god-theory, jet-theory and "vengence", because like k-style they're bugs and can only be tested in a live environment. fraps is just used like a classroom experiment, where you can see these things for yourself because the game is largely based on animations with no "timed" animation lock (to keep the animations at a certain number of frames,) so fps plays a big part.

learning is fun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



check out this funny rage comic xddd

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]


Saying ALL K-style was accidental is proof that you didn't check the code.

Things like tipslash and phasing(n0 rec1ls) are all programmed inside.(Makes all gunz develprs top tier dun it? LEARNING IZ F00N) The only thing that I cannot consider voluntary is that thing with reload. Actually, tipslash and phasing(no recoilz0r) are literally ONE chunk(basically, same thing).

Roma has already copypasta'd the whole recoil block thing and how it works: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

(as for timed animation lock, BEHOLD LE STUNLOCKER letrollmeisterx90002k14)

Also, that 9 frames thing would only belong to block, since it has like 9 frames in its animation. The rest(jump, slash etc) has 2 frames(knife-jump, knife-whatever is whole jump animation. Two frames. Every slash SINGLED out of the four GS and the aerial slash itself follow the same concept. Two frames. Lily/AB's street fighter zoning frame super secret classified ninja scroll concept theory about warmup, effect and cooldown 3 frames is wrong). IDK its quite soup, but nice try.

Also got theory and virginity are foon i dont get them tho
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Post by ♡♥♡(✿◠‿◠)✿♥♡♥ Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:22 am

WRUM! wrote:
I think the animation locks (vblock, void slash, etc) are due to GunZ replaying the last frame of the animation, if the same animation is played over and over again [1][2]. This happens with animations like jumping, falling, and a falling massive naturally [3].

The way this factors into vblock is that block has different animations for its raising and holding. When you press the block button, the raising animation is first played, and afterwards, the block hold animation starts looping until the block timer runs out and you return to the normal idle upper [4] animation. Here's the catch though, the animation id for the upper body idle animation is only set after the sword has fully returned to your side. What this means is that the very last frame of the block raising animation pretty much looks like the beginning of the upper body idle animation.

By spamming the block raising animation and not staying in the idle animation for more than a few frames, the PostBasicInfo cycle can't send the idle animation to other clients, [5] because the timer for sending this information is a lot longer than your stay in the idle animation.

What all of this results in is that all other players only receive the block raising upper animation, which in turn, just makes their client play the last frame of it, which just happens to look like the beginning of the idle animation.

I could be wrong though. It's been some time since I've last messed with the client.


Notes:
[1] By which I mean to say that the animation id remains unchanged after the animation has reached the last frame.

[2] Unless the animations are marked as looped (running, block hold, and idle animations). Then all bets are off.

[3] You can achieve the same effect with slashing, wallclimbing, dashing, etc. if you run an animation switcher to lock yourself into a certain animation like me and ent did on RGunZ.

[4] For anybody that didn't know already, animations are divided between upper and lower body. This is what makes it possible to have a lower body running animation with a reloading/grenade throwing animation at the same time.

[5] PostBasicInfo sends information to other players in the game about your position, rotation, current animation, current weapon (and some other uninteresting stuff I've forgotten about). It sends this information on a set timer, or when you've traveled a certain distance from your last position. Messing with this function is how ABBY bot's invisibility and spinning worked.
yea it only sends ani indices every 10 ms in the basicinfo structure without any additional information. it ought to just be sending frame number information along with the index (which would also synchronize animation speed), or looping all animations

iirc it will never lock on your own client even if it's perfectly timed since it'll still set the idle animation before it processes block key input, in the same frame. since it's then changing from a different animation (even if it hasn't actually played any of that animation), it'll start at frame 0 again properly

the huge beta igunz flip thing is also caused by the recipient being on the last frame of their animation

also block hold does not loop
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Post by Jianyu Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:15 am

The argument isn't if tipslashing and phasing are programmed in, they are... kind-of (Tip-slashing is only in because of...

if(DotProduct(dir,m_Direction)>.5f && fDist<200.f) {

Which doesn't suggest intelligent "design" for tip-slash, it could very well be that they thought the slash range was 200 "feet".

Roma's explanation is just proving the block-range is what everyone thought it was. There is nothing that says intelligent design in terms of phasing/tipslashing, I don't know what you're trying to argue. I think you're trying to argue that MAIET designed k-style and gladiator-techniques to work in game, but there's nothing to suggest they do.

I don't know what stunlock is, but "stun" only refers, in the code, to being recoiled. If you can find that, I'd be interested to see it. Because I couldn't.

There's one k-style move that's intelligently designed; lightstep. That's just because DashSlash and Slash are two different things, but they are affected in the same exact ways. Slashshot also, that was even in KGunZ Beta (called JumpShot)

In fact, according to ZMyCharacter::ShotBlocked(), if the "shot" is blocked at ALL, you have to recoil. Therein, in order to not recoil, you have to make the game think you didn't attack the block at all. angling wow. I'm pretty sure everything has to do with ZGetGame()->GetTime(), including phasing + why FPS affects the game + why underclocking did what it did. But I'm too lazy to figure it out)

We can see why SOME things work, butterfly works because the block animation is allowed during the slash / jumpslash animation. We can see there ARE built-in timers for each animation/function.

I'm still not quite sure what you're trying to argue, I think you're trying to argue that k-style was developed by intelligent design but it really wasn't lol.


Crawly and WRUM too big a quote

That's pretty much what I was getting at, in fact that's exactly how Naravus originally described it. But I do have a feeling the in-game timer has a big thing to do with it, because the timer dictates EVERYTHING. I just wish I knew what the fuck the "f" unit was, since it's for time AND distance AND speed.
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Post by GokuLowClass Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:16 am

suck it nerds
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Last edited by GokuLowClass on Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:45 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by happilymarried Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:39 am

. is for floating point number
f is for single precision
1. is like 1.0
1.1f != 1.1 tho o.o cz lonely . is double
you are welcome
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Post by BoozeAddict Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:54 am

what a sad gif Sad
did she lose half of her hair in a horrible accident?

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Post by ♡♥♡(✿◠‿◠)✿♥♡♥ Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:13 am

Jianyu wrote:I just wish I knew what the fuck the "f" unit was, since it's for time AND distance AND speed.
you mean the 200.f thing? it's a language thing to prevent compiler warnings or errors since "200" is interpreted as an integer by default (3 / 2 = 1; 3.f / 2 = 3.0 / 2 = 1.5). it's roughly the same as 200.0.

anyway the gunz source is so confusing, poorly written and misleading that it's p hard to understand any of the complex bugs based on it. Like how when it has different entries for female and male slashes and different range and animation times attached to them (or something like that, don't really remember which things were different), you'd normally think female and male slashes actually had different range and animation times, but when it's MAIET: nope, they just end up only using the female data and not cleaning up the code from whatever they were trying to do there before.

You end up being unable to look at any single part of the code and assume that it's consistent and what it implies about the design is accurate; e.g., that because it reads and stores an "angle" field for melee weapons, and the listed values are consistent with sword ranges, you can change the width of the sword range in zitems.xml. Looking at the entire thing, you find that at the point in the code where it should be using the angle, it's just hardcoded to 120 degrees.

Not to mention how "shot" only sometimes refers to gunshots, other times refers to slashes, and yet other times again refers to massives; same for slashes and explosions or whatever they called massives.
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Post by ♡♥♡(✿◠‿◠)✿♥♡♥ Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:17 am

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